Marketing, Branding and What Actually Works for Trade Businesses | Aisha Derrick

[00:00] Cold open

Aisha: People need that human connection. They need that authenticity.

Kane: A one-man band or a small business, they just can't possibly provide the service that we can.

Aisha: Because if you understand why that works for them, then you can find the gaps that they're not doing and do it better.

[00:12] Intro and biggest trade marketing mistakes

Kane: Hey, I'm Kane Tyler Smith, the founder and CEO of Smartfix and Hypotential. This is Unlocking Business, where we have real conversations around business, leadership, mindset and personal growth. If you've been getting value from these conversations, please take a second to like, subscribe and follow our channels. It helps us reach more people, bring on more guests and share more stories. Now, let's get into this episode.

Kane: Today, I'm joined by Aisha Derrick. Aisha has worked alongside Smartfix for the past four years, helping shape our branding, marketing and overall customer experience. More recently, she's also become co-owner of Hypotential. Today, we're talking about marketing and advertising, specifically for residential trade businesses: what works, what doesn't, and where so many business owners waste their time and money. What are the biggest mistakes a trade business makes?

Aisha: I would say first is stretching a small budget too thin. So, trying to focus on everything and every platform. Copying exactly what your competitors are doing instead of understanding why it works for them, because not everything that a competitor does will work for you. And also having no tracking in place. So, you've got that small budget and you're trying to put it everywhere, but you're not sure why it's working, where those leads are coming from and where they've gone afterwards as well.

[01:05] Spreading a small budget too thin

Kane: So, with spreading it thin, what do you mean by that? Like between different platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Google Ads, SEO?

Aisha: So obviously when you first start your business, the budget that you would have is not the size of what Smartfix would have or any other established business. It's a startup, so it's not a huge budget. And you might get overwhelmed with Google Ads, Meta ads, needing to hire someone, hiring freelancers for your branding or logo or whatever, instead of dialling it back and just focusing on what matters more at the start. So, for a lot of startups, going into Google Ads is probably not where you should be starting.

[02:09] Do you need a marketing budget?

Kane: Do you think businesses that are just starting need to have a budget in mind? And if so, how much do you think they would need to spend as a minimum?

Aisha: I think having a budget is important. I think for a lot of residential trade businesses, though, starting out, you don't necessarily need to spend a massive amount on marketing at the beginning. It's actually more viable to just focus on your family and those sorts of customers first and build up, because there's a lot of things that you can do with marketing and branding that don't cost anything. You can consider budget to also be the time that you have available. Starting out, most of the time it's just you. So you have that small budget and just the time that you have available to do the work yourself and also run the business.

Aisha: So if you're talking about things that you can do for free at the beginning, that might be that initial research first on why you want to start the business, because that's always going to be important, and grounding for you later as you grow. And then, say, a Google Business Profile, thinking about a review system and building up that first social media platform at the beginning. And then as you start to expand, you can have a look at freelancers and those small ad budgets at the start for Meta and Google Ads.

[04:16] Free marketing when starting out

Kane: Yeah. So some of the free things that you can do, I think you just touched on it then. So social media, your Google profile. Is there anything else that they can do when they first start if they have no budget?

Aisha: Yeah. So other than your Google Business Profile, getting that set up, getting those first initial photos in as well. You can take them yourself or have your partner or a friend take them, and add those in. There's also Facebook pages and Facebook community pages where you can start posting. Obviously Instagram and Facebook don't cost anything to set up, so get started on there. Then you've also got all that initial research before getting started as well. So it's important to know why you've built the business to begin with and where you want to take it. What's important to you, whether it's that initial customer experience, or whether you want to be known for transparent pricing, or whatever it might be.

Aisha: But it's also reminding yourself that you are running a business. You're not just a person. So getting that initial work phone and that email address. A lot of businesses start out with that free extra domain to then set up their work email and website as well.

Kane: Yeah, I think that's something that everyone needs to do if they start their own business. You need to get a proper email.

Aisha: It looks so unprofessional if you just have businessname@gmail.com.

Kane: I don't think it costs much to have the domain, does it?

Aisha: No. And it's quite easy as well to find free coupons, or a lot of subscription platforms, even Google, give you a free domain for a year. It's very common. So you can get that set up, or do free trials and just get one for free. But yeah, 100%. I think as well, when I said treating yourself like a business, when I did freelancing for other trade businesses, I would call them to talk through stuff and they would just answer the phone and say "hi", instead of "Hi, this is blah blah blah from XYZ business". Those initial things at the beginning are so important. I think they make such a big difference as well: the email, how they answer the phone and how they present themselves.

Kane: Yeah. I think there's a bit of a difference between being a subcontractor as opposed to having your own proper business. I know a lot of subcontractors just have a Gmail email. They don't have a website. They don't really have a Facebook. There's no digital footprint.

[07:26] Why you need a Facebook business page

Kane: Which leads me to another question. For example, on Facebook, I know a lot of people start there. They'll join community groups and whatnot. Do they need to have a business Facebook page to do that? Because I think some people don't want to have their personal Facebook as their main business profile, if that makes sense.

Aisha: Yeah, I would say definitely have the business page first. Don't do it from your personal. Have your business set up. Say you're commenting on a post where someone's asking if there's a reliable electrician or whatever in their suburb, and you comment and say, "Yeah, you can contact me or message me." They're going to look at your Facebook page first before they message you. And if they look at your Facebook page and find all your family and friends and your auntie wishing you a happy birthday, instead of your business hours, some photos of previous work you've done, or your licences and that sort of stuff, it makes a big difference.

Aisha: And then as you grow the business as well, you'll be sending customers and everything to that Facebook page. With a business Facebook page, you can get reviews as well, so you want to be starting out like that. And then as you grow and, say, get into Meta ads, you'll need to connect to that page, and you've already got x amount of followers and reviews. It just makes the process a lot simpler from the beginning.

Kane: Can you join Facebook communities as a business page, though?

Aisha: Some of them, yeah. There's some that you can. It's just that you can't advertise your business, but there are other ways to do it. Say you give advice that's not advertising your business, and then they're like, "Oh, this person's trustworthy. I'm going to contact them." Or at the start it's very common for, say, a partner or yourself to be on your personal account, or another personal account, messaging those people, or saying, "Oh, I just had this done by XYZ, you should go check them out," and then sending them your way.

Kane: You mentioned a bit earlier on about tracking as well, and I suppose if you do set up a business profile on Meta, I assume you can track in the back end of there. Is that right?

Aisha: Yeah, there is tracking within Meta Business. So if you have your professional business profile, then you can track your analytics through Meta Business Suite. You can then go on to Google Search Console and that, but if we're thinking about just starting out, you just need the basics at the start to know that you're going in the right direction.

Kane: Yeah, and with tracking, I suppose that would come more when you are doing paid ads and you can track what's working and what isn't.

Aisha: Yeah, that would be Google Ads and even paid Meta ads.

Kane: Do you think most people would need a freelancer or an external person to run those kinds of things, or do you think some people can do it themselves?

Aisha: I think some people can do it themselves, but it also depends on what your goals are for the business. If it's to stay as just yourself and grow from there, then you're probably going to need that external help just because your time is very limited. Once you set up a Google Ads campaign, it's not something that you're going to have to work in every single day, but you're going to need to understand the budgets and when to increase or decrease, that sort of stuff. So it would be more beneficial to have someone external, which will probably be the case for most people as well.

[10:35] Keep control of your own accounts

Aisha: But I think one of the most important things that a lot of people don't do is, when they hire those people, they don't think about the fact that they're going to need control over the systems that they build later. Same with Google Business Profiles, and that's a free one, and your Facebook and your Google Ads. They hire people or use a friend to set those up, and then later down the track they have no idea how to access any of them. They don't know the passwords. They don't know how to change a photo if they want to change a photo or something like that. And that just puts a pause on a lot of things later on as well. As a business owner, you need to understand where all that is, because you're not going to be using the same freelancer forever.

Kane: Yeah, that is so important, and luckily we did it right the first time. But I know people that have used an agency where they haven't had Google Ads before, and the agency will push for them to open up the account so the agency has full control. Because sometimes, and this happened, someone tried to do this to us originally. When we cancelled our marketing agreement with them, they said that they would need to completely clear the Google account because it was all of their data and their learnings. And I was like, "Well, no, we've been paying you a lot of money for a long time. The information that's in there, we've paid for that."

Kane: Again, it was a bit strange, because I'm a tradie. I was like, "This sounds so strange to me." That's like me wiring your house.

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: Maintaining it, and then you find a new electrician, and I come and rip out all the wiring.

Aisha: Yeah. Yeah.

Kane: One piece of advice I do give to people that I know are starting businesses is you make your own profile. You give them access so that you do have that control.

Aisha: Yeah. And even if you're not going to do anything to the Google Ads or whatever yourself, you have to have the top access level, and they're admin or whatever, so that you can later remove them or add other people. I think what we do really well is we have a spreadsheet for all of our passwords and access, and anytime something is made, even if it's a free trial, add it in there, because you sign up to so many different things.

Kane: Yeah. And then you remember in the early days all of the directories and everything you sign up for, and then you can't find access to them.

Aisha: Yeah. It's a very, very big pain in the bum if you don't have all the information and passwords, for sure.

[13:45] Agencies, freelancers and cost per lead

Kane: I was going to say before, with Google Ads, you said something about time and people having time to do their own. So there's time, and then plus even just the ability. I remember I ran my own Google Ads at the very start for maybe two or three weeks, and me being a tradie, not really a technical person, I was just like, "This is crazy. There's no way I can do this properly," especially when things change all the time. So we started using an agency pretty quickly, and as we grew, I think we've used maybe three or four different bigger agencies. And now obviously, as you know, we've ended up with, I suppose, a freelancer over east.

Aisha: Yeah. He's amazing. Google Ads is a deep dive for a lot of people. I can imagine just looking at the dashboard for it, it's quite overwhelming. And like a lot of things with marketing, there's a lot of research before just making an ad and putting money into it.

Kane: And it's scary, because the way Google have set it up is obviously to get you to spend as much money as possible, which isn't always in the best interest of us as the customer. So that's where I think a freelancer or someone that you know and trust is super important, and that is hard to find. We're nine years in, and we've always had concerns with agencies because, again, we're trades. We don't understand. We don't know the right questions to ask. We get shown big dashboards where the conversions or impressions are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, but the leads aren't there.

Kane: So for us at the moment, we're in a good spot. We know how much it costs us to get a quote in the door, to some degree. Obviously it fluctuates day by day. As you know, some days it's $200 for a lead. Other days it's $450. The colder the weather becomes, the cheaper it becomes for air con, but it almost is day by day. It changes significantly.

Aisha: Yeah, it is a daily thing.

Kane: Which makes it hard, because if you do use an agency, it's not a set and forget at all. Unless you have smaller budgets and you're not completely reliant on it, I do think that you need to speak with the person who's doing your marketing at least weekly. At least weekly.

Aisha: Yeah. I mean, freelancers will have multiple clients as well, but with an agency you're one of a hundred or more. And especially in Perth, Perth is so small, and trade businesses using agencies is quite uncommon. So it's not really a typical client for them either, or at the top range budget that most of their other clients would be at.

[16:55] Why Perth trades struggle to stand out

Kane: Yeah, Perth is small. So, that leads me to the next question. Specifically in Perth, why do many businesses struggle to stand out?

Aisha: From what I've seen, a lot of trade businesses stick to the same general claims for their business. So that's like...

Kane: No call-out fee, free quotes, 24/7.

Aisha: Exactly. That's pretty much every trade business in Perth, and that's their whole branding. That's their whole story. And so you just have multiple repeats of the same business. So I think that's one of the big things. They stick to those general claims instead of building up more of their branding or marketing about why they actually wanted to start a business and where they want to take it in the long term, and focusing on that customer experience and that trust, which is what customers remember. It's so common now, the call-out fees and quality work and reliable service.

Kane: Even one that is funny, and I know we do it as well, is "fully licensed, fully insured". It's like, yes, that's a legal requirement, but you sort of have to say it. You mentioned it earlier about people just copying other people, which is so true. Obviously we do it as well. If something's working, we will try and copy it or change it.

Aisha: Yeah, which is fine, but it's like what I said before as well. Some people are just like, "Oh, I like this business. I'm going to copy word for word exactly what they're doing," but not understanding why that works for them. Because if you understand why that works for them, then you can find the gaps that they're not doing and do it better. If you're just copying exactly the same, they've already got their established customer base with all their referrals and repeat customers. You need to understand why that works for them so then you can improve and go past that, instead of just doing the exact same thing.

[19:02] When branding starts to matter

Kane: At what stage do you think a business needs to have good branding? There's obviously a lot of businesses that are small that probably don't really need it if they're a one-man band or maybe two to three guys.

Aisha: I think it's a lot earlier than you think. I think at the beginning it's important to have those initial things. If you think about it, marketing and advertising are what gets you noticed. It's what gets you the clicks, but branding is what makes people trust you, and that's what creates the repeat and referral customers. So starting out, when it's just you, you might not think that it's as important. But those initial things, like your logo, picking those initial things first is important. Then as you start to grow and bring in more people, it's harder to communicate what your branding is, and that's when the inconsistencies happen and it starts falling apart.

Aisha: So I'd say at the beginning you need those basic principles of what your branding is. If you start hiring freelancers and getting external people and you don't have anything or any idea, they're going to just guess what you want your branding to be. And then later down the track you need to pay more to get it fixed because it's not what you actually wanted. And then as you start hiring other people, you need to be able to tell them what you want them to represent. So how you want your branding to be to customers, when you first pick up the phone and talk to them, or when they see your van pull up on their driveway, that it's the same experience when the trades are actually doing the work as well.

Kane: And is it okay to change your logo or rebrand? The reason I ask is we have obviously rebranded multiple times. We're in the process of doing it again now.

Aisha: Yeah, it's fine. People change, businesses change. You're never going to be able to realistically stick to the exact same thing forever. But I think what's important is, and use Smartfix as an example, we've rebranded the logo and our vans and everything quite a few times, but the core of the branding and what we want customers to see about us has stayed the same. So that is branding as well. It's how your business communicates, whether that's your tone of voice or how you want your trades and customer service team to talk to customers. That is branding as well. So you've got that type of branding, the tone of voice of your website, your vans, uniforms, all of that sort of stuff. All of that is branding.

Kane: So, is that inclusive of your core values?

Aisha: Yep. That's all classed as branding.

Kane: Your unique selling points and everything?

Aisha: Yep. So, if you have all of that in place, you've got all of your basic principles down pat. And then if you change your logo, you obviously need to remind your customers that it's still you, but you've still got that same messaging and you're not changing the experience for the customer. You're just reminding them that you've done a nice little refresh.

[22:16] Van wraps and our fleet rebrand

Kane: Let's talk about vehicle wrapping.

Aisha: Sure.

Kane: So I think we're a little bit behind in WA.

Aisha: Everyone knows that.

Kane: So over east, I'm trying to think how to explain this. Over east they're a bit more ahead, and I know a lot of the big trade businesses over there have a lot of communication with these big American companies that are over here at the moment, which is interesting, because I do think it is changing the game, especially over there. So, one thing, for example, and I've done a lot of research recently, a lot of businesses over there, trade businesses specifically, are wrapping their vans entirely. So, super standout, super clear messaging.

Kane: And a local business over here, No Props Plumbing, shout out to them. They've just gone through a process of rebranding all their fleet in a grass green full wrap. They said it's been really good for their branding, and their lead count has gone up significantly. And because it was on the cars, for us, we had to rebrand our business name, because we've changed the business name back from Multi Trade Services to electrical and air conditioning. We were going to rebrand anyway. And that's when I thought a full wrap would look awesome, which obviously you're in the process of designing.

Aisha: And it's definitely a standout.

Kane: Yeah. I suppose I don't know what the question is. What changes do you think that's going to make to our business?

Aisha: Melbourne is obviously larger than Perth, and trade businesses are quite a saturated market. There's so many one-man bands now. It's a common milestone for a lot of people working in their own trade to then want to start their own business. It crosses so many people's minds to do it. So, it is quite a saturated market now and it's just growing, because people want that security and to start their own business. And within Perth as well, because it is a lot smaller, people rely on word of mouth and trust so much more. So even if you have no branding and it's just your ute, those repeat customers are important. So I think a lot of businesses here do get away with it to some point, until they start growing and they need something more. And I think it's very important as you start to grow as well, if you can afford it, to get those full wraps.

[25:27] Keeping a full wrap professional

Aisha: I do think it'll have quite a big impact. For Smartfix, we're known for having a bright orange logo, and that is a standout on a white van.

Kane: What about a full orange van?

Aisha: A full orange van. Definitely a standout, as long as you're not breaking your own branding. It doesn't mean that you need to go and put a lightning bolt on the top of your van or wrap it in rainbows or whatever, because you don't want to break your own branding and your own principles to create something that's tacky and going to end up being a joke. You want it to still appear professional and, one, be very clear about what services you offer. Your branding and the colours on your vans shouldn't distract from that, because you'll have your van on driveways and other people will see it, like the neighbours. And pay attention to every panel of the van as well, thinking about when you're driving in traffic and that sort of thing. So yeah, I think it'll be a big one for us.

Kane: Yeah. I saw an Instagram reel last night of one of the businesses over east. I think they do electrical and plumbing, and they were up on a two or three storey roof and they filmed down at the road, and they had I think four or five proper blue vehicles, fully wrapped. I was like, "That's really cool." Because if you drive down that street, you are like, "Oh my gosh," four or five completely wrapped vehicles.

Aisha: It can't not get your attention.

Kane: Yeah. I think that's a very important point you just made about being tacky. And obviously I know I sent you a design that might have been a little bit on the borderline of tacky.

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: So just making sure it's still professional but still super standout. And because there's not really many businesses in Perth that have those full wraps, I do think it's going to make a huge difference to our branding and recognition. And also having electrical and air conditioning clearly written on there. That's the main reason we're doing the brand change, because at the moment it's Multi Trade Services, and I think a lot of people don't know what that even is. Even if I try and put myself in the perspective of a customer that doesn't have any real trade knowledge, I would maybe just assume it's commercial property maintenance. I don't really know.

Aisha: And because we have so many vehicles out there, it's such a potential wasted opportunity for advertising. And what we've been talking about recently as well is that it is obviously costly to fully wrap a van, so you've got to think about longevity too.

Kane: You don't want to change that. We can't do this project and change again, because I think we've got 26 vehicles we're doing and it's going to cost about 160k.

Aisha: It's a lot of money.

Kane: Yeah. So, you've got to make the right choices and not put anything on there that you might want to change. Unless it's a logo, which we're not allowed to change anymore.

Aisha: No. The brand stays forever.

[28:33] Branding vs marketing vs advertising

Kane: You touched on it earlier, but what is the difference between branding and advertising?

Aisha: So, like I mentioned before, marketing and advertising is what gets you noticed first. It's your Google Ads, your Meta, social media as well. It's how customers find you and notice you at the beginning, what gets you those clicks and those initial enquiries. And it's the strategy, the why, and who your customer audience is as well, who your ideal customer is.

Kane: So, is that marketing and advertising you're describing now?

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: So, what's the difference between marketing and advertising?

Aisha: Oh, yes. Marketing and advertising.

Kane: That wasn't the original question, but that's another one.

Aisha: They are very similar. Advertising you could class as the platforms. So where you put your budget and how far you stretch it, and managing those analytics and the reporting as well. Marketing is everything behind the scenes. It's finding that ideal customer, your target audience, researching those competitors and what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong so that you can improve on that. And then mapping out what you want your customer journey to look like, what you want their experience to look like and feel like, so that you can put that into your branding or start telling your customer service team or trades or whatever.

Kane: So, the strategy behind the scenes.

Aisha: Yeah. So, you need all of that marketing and strategy and the why behind everything to then put into your advertising. So it's essentially your marketing and branding that then funnel into your advertising.

[30:38] How branding and marketing work together

Kane: So would you say then that the branding sits behind marketing? You need your branding set first to then form the marketing, planning the strategy, and then advertising is the front end?

Aisha: I'd say they're aligned. So, in the marketing, you're looking at who you want your ideal customer to be and finding out what your perfect customer looks like.

Kane: Your ICP.

Aisha: Yeah. That will then funnel into your branding. For example, if your ideal customer is someone in their 60s that lives in a really nice suburb, then you think about what stands out to them, and that will funnel into your branding. Or if it's a first home owner, what would stand out to them. So I would say they're on the same line of importance. You can't just create your branding first, because it's the tone of voice for the customer, the messaging, your taglines and your unique selling points, your USPs. If you create that first without doing that initial marketing research, you're then going to be advertising to everyone and getting no one. They need to coexist.

Kane: So, I suppose if you are doing paid advertising, it'd be cheaper to hone in on your ideal... is it ideal customer persona? Is that what ICP stands for?

Aisha: Yeah. Actually, I can't remember. Yeah, sounds like it. But yeah, it's more expensive to advertise to everyone. You have your generic terms that everyone would be going for, like "plumber near me", "electrician near me". But it's the leads that you then get from that and the customers that you then get from that. It's like, is that actually what you want? And then refining from there.

[32:47] Ideal customers and platform audiences

Kane: I suppose that's always been a hard one with us, and one that I've always struggled to understand, because with Smartfix and the work that we do, in theory, anyone that lives in a house is our ideal customer.

Aisha: I mean, yeah, that is true to a point. Everyone needs an electrician or a plumber or whatever at some stage. But then you think as well, you're also not advertising on one platform. Your customers aren't all on Facebook, or they're not all on Instagram, or they're not all using just a web browser to get their questions answered. So each of those different platforms has different personas and different users. So that's important to understand as well. Even just talking about suburbs, different suburbs might have different issues, say the coastal suburbs, versus some of the new builds, versus the older homes.

Kane: Yeah, that is true. It's not just about the person, it's about where they live and that kind of thing. A lot of our work is residential maintenance. We potentially might not want to advertise in brand new suburbs, because there shouldn't be any maintenance in those homes. There might be upgrades, but the better word for us is maintenance and breakdowns, which would be older suburbs.

Aisha: Yep.

Kane: Which potentially could be an older demographic in those suburbs that might not be on LinkedIn or TikTok.

Aisha: Yeah. Exactly. They're the things that we would have to consider in our marketing and advertising. So for Smartfix, we're on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and LinkedIn, and the content might stay the same, but the descriptions and the captions will adjust depending on the audience. Whether it's a younger demographic for Instagram versus older for Facebook, and then more business to business on LinkedIn. It's just adjusting that to who your customer is and who's actually using those platforms.

[34:53] Google reviews and reputation

Kane: How important are Google reviews and reputation?

Aisha: So important. So important, especially for residential businesses. You think about it, they're letting a stranger into their home. Google reviews are so important, and it's not even just trade businesses, but everyone goes to those reviews first. And it's not just the volume as well. For a lot of customers, that's the first point of customer experience that they get from the business. So, how you reply to those reviews, what they're saying about you before even going to the website. That's where a lot of people start. They google "electrician near me", your Google Business Profile shows up, and they're going straight to the reviews to have a look at them. They're seeing what people are saying, how you're replying, how you're resolving issues, even if there are some bad ones. They're very important.

Aisha: So as I mentioned at the start, Google Business Profiles and having a review system in place are very important. So having that consistency in how you get reviews and what you do with them when you get them is very important.

Kane: Yeah.

[36:58] Google Business Profile posts

Kane: And also making sure that you're using your Google My Business posting platform, which some people don't even know exists. We spoke about that recently in one of our workshops. Can you explain a bit about what that is and what it's for?

Aisha: Yeah. So, for a lot of people, when it appears on the Google Business Profile, it'll either be "Add post" or it'll be "Add update". It'll be one of those two, depending on how your account is set up. But everyone can add posts, unless your business is about alcohol or gambling or whatever and you're restricted from posting. Everyone can do a post on their Google Business Profile and it doesn't cost anything. It's not something that should be treated as a social post. Imagine it more like an ad, and it might not be seen by customers, but it's more for Google to understand that you are an active business.

Aisha: So it's important to post consistently. And that could be just once a week or once every two weeks. You're thinking just a photo and a simple caption, and it can be just "Learn more" and going to your website. It's something that we do for Smartfix, and we post once a week. And like I said, it's not for...

Kane: Lead generation.

Aisha: Yeah. It's not for likes and shares. It's not for SEO. It's often overlooked because it doesn't have those initial benefits when you do a post. It's more the longevity of just reminding Google that you are a legit business and that you are an active business. It's the same as when you first start posting on socials and you have consistency and then you just stop. Then years down the track, people are going to assume that that's where you are, that you're not active anymore. So, it's the same with Google Business and posting.

[39:06] Batching and scheduling content

Kane: And you can schedule posts in there, can't you?

Aisha: Yes.

Kane: So, you could maybe set aside an hour a month, potentially. Four posts for the month, one per week, and set and forget to some extent.

Aisha: Yeah, I would recommend doing that for all platforms. It is important to post on socials as well, but part of that is just sticking to one platform at the start and just getting used to posting, because a lot of trade business owners probably don't even post to their own socials, or imagine that they would have to be a content creator. So yeah, like you said, even just setting aside that one day a month to do the batching of content and then schedule it to those platforms. Pretty much all the social media platforms have their own built-in scheduling tools, so you can do that there. If it's Facebook or Instagram, you can schedule there. On Instagram, you can actually link your Facebook as well.

Kane: Yeah. So you can link them. So if there's a small electrical business and you don't have much time, literally just set aside one hour a month, set it up on Instagram, link it to Facebook, and use the same content reworded to suit your Google My Business profile. That way it's literally so much easier than trying to figure out how to become a content creator. It doesn't need to be rocket science for those people that just need the bare minimum.

Aisha: Yep. And you can do the same with Google Business posts. You can schedule them through there as well. When you go through the "Add post" or "Add update" process, it's either schedule or post now. And it's more about consistency as well. It's not like, "I've got to post at 9am every Friday." Just pick a day every week and that's when you're going to post. It doesn't matter if your schedule changes and you post at 1pm instead of 9am, or 6pm instead of whatever. It does not matter. It's just consistency.

Aisha: And there are also so many scheduling platforms out there as well, just to make it even easier, like Planoly, or Metricool, which is the one that we use as well. You can connect all of your social media platforms and your Google Business Profile there. And then in that one or two hours every month, just go in there, add in your captions, add the photo, and just schedule it to all of them.

Kane: And do comments and messages also sit in that one platform?

Aisha: Yes.

Kane: So you can just go in there and respond to everything from within that platform, as opposed to going to all four or five separate ones.

Aisha: Yes. It's still good to have a look through the platforms themselves, because no system is perfect, so sometimes it will miss things. But generally all of them will be there, as well as all of your analytics.

[42:13] Turning new customers into repeats

Kane: How should businesses focus on getting repeat customers as opposed to new ones all the time?

Aisha: Well, new customer acquisition is always going to be important at the start to then get those repeats. It's about what you do with those new customers to then turn them into repeats and referrals, which is where a lot of your branding comes in as well, to build that trust and that unique experience for them. Because remember, like I said, branding is also the tone of voice and how your trades and the customer service team communicate with that customer. All of that helps to build that trust. So, you want to be turning your new customers into those repeats. And repeats and referrals are so important, because they're the cheapest leads you're ever going to get, and they're always going to be your ideal customers as well.

Kane: So, some examples of how you could re-engage those people to do other work? Because with our type of work, it isn't really recurring. It's not like every month you need us back there to do this. It's pretty much as and when they have issues in their home. So yeah, what are some examples of how you can re-engage existing customers?

Aisha: It starts in the initial experience. Being a service business, you have that unique experience of face-to-face interaction. I'll talk about re-engagement in a second, but having that face-to-face interaction is going to be the most memorable part for that customer. So setting that basis first, of what you want that customer experience to be like, will help them remember you as well, and then be more open when you re-engage with them later. If your tradespeople were rude or ignored the customer, say they walked in, didn't wipe their feet, just said hi, did the job and left, and you try and build up this perfect funnel of how you're going to re-engage them, they're not going to care, because they had a horrible experience. People need to like you and trust you at the start to then be open to that re-engagement and whatever marketing you want to do after.

Aisha: So, it's about setting that basis first. And then they're like, "I had a great conversation with them. I trusted them. That was perfect. Couldn't have gone any better." Then you send them an email. You ask for a review. They go into your marketing funnel and you send them a monthly email, or your customer service team calls them when the new hot water system they just had installed needs to be serviced. They're going to remember you, and remember that good experience and that they felt noticed in that first call, and be like, "I trust you guys to keep managing that system." And then the funnel that you have for re-engaging them will work more effectively.

Kane: Mhm.

Aisha: And then that's when they could be following you on social media or referring you to other people, telling their friends and family about the great experience they had, or how effective their hot water system is and how lovely the tradespeople were. And that's the most effective marketing.

[46:32] Every touch point in the customer journey

Kane: There's so much to it. Just thinking as you were talking then about Smartfix specifically, there's so many touch points. If someone googles "electrician near me"...

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: ...we pop up, maybe as a paid ad or SEO. They see our profile, so we make sure our Google My Business posts frequently and that we're getting regular reviews. Then they call the office and they speak to the customer service team. That experience needs to be great. The customer service team need to explain that we can come out and give them the free quote. We send our site assessor to site to give them the free quote. We make sure we communicate that we're on the way, take our shoes off, go through the job with them, and explain how we can help them.

Aisha: What we can do.

Kane: Then if the customer agrees to do the job, that comes back to the office to do our checklist and schedule the work in with the scheduling team. Then it goes to an installer. Same thing again, same process. They then need to go to site and provide that same level of customer service.

Aisha: Hand out their flyers and magnets.

Kane: Yeah. Complete the work, make sure they explain what they've done to the customer, clean up, ask for a Google review, then they leave site, then we send the invoice, and then the email campaign starts after that. So, there's so much involved that needs to be done right, because if there's one bad experience within that whole process, it will annoy the customer.

Aisha: Exactly. And like you said, all of that stuff that you just listed is so important for whatever you want to do afterwards to actually work.

Kane: Yeah, we get so much work, and we hear so many stories of people that have had bad experiences, because a one-man band or a small business, they just can't possibly provide the service that we can. So it's hard for them to do that. But obviously they're going to be cheaper than what we have to charge to cover costs. So, there's obviously pros and cons either way.

Aisha: And unfortunately, people are going to talk more if they have a bad experience as well.

Kane: Yeah. What is it, seven times more likely to leave a bad review than a positive review?

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: That's a shame.

Aisha: Or to tell their family and friends about how horrible their experience was. Not, "We had a lovely tradie and we had a cup of tea together." They're going to talk about what went wrong.

[48:37] Has AI helped or hurt marketing?

Kane: Yeah. Has AI changed marketing for better or for worse?

Aisha: Both. It's changed it for the better just with how fast we can turn things around now. With AI, we can turn around projects so much quicker now: the initial research and drafting, and building websites with AI code and everything now. The time frames with it versus without are notably so different. What used to take hours now can take five minutes, especially with that whole co-pilot way of working, say having Claude working on a project, which is what I actually do, Claude working on a project here while you're working on a project here, and then being able to just give it updates as well. It's sad in a way that it is replacing teams and it is replacing people. But what people dwell on is, "I'm not going to use that because it's AI," when it's inevitable, and it's important to leverage it instead of falling behind.

Aisha: Where it's bad is people are using it to replace thinking. They're replacing that initial thinking and that human connection and that human voice that we have, which AI just doesn't have. If people are doing all of their copywriting and all their content writing just using AI, it doesn't have that thought process that we do. Everything that it's generating is out there somewhere, so you're going to get sources and outcomes that have been done previously. It has to research somewhere to then be able to give you that outcome. So yeah, it's bad when people stop thinking and just take the outcome as it is, black and white, and then run with that.

Kane: Copy and paste it.

Aisha: Yeah. And we've all seen it now, people creating posters with ChatGPT, and it's just so obvious and it's everywhere. Even Claude. Each of the platforms has its own distinct style and it's so easy to pick up on. And I know for me it's an instant turn-off, going to a website and it's all AI, or the socials or the posters or the advertising.

Kane: Especially when they haven't checked it, if they've just copied and pasted it. We spoke about this the other day. They accidentally leave in the little summary down the bottom that says, "If you want, I can now create you blah blah blah." It's like, you haven't even checked it. At least check it.

Aisha: Yeah. I've literally gotten email responses where they've responded and it's been an AI response, and then, "Do you want this in a different format?" Like, did you like the response? But yeah, I think it's just important for people to remember that yes, you can sign up for a free ChatGPT account, and yes, you can generate your logo from ChatGPT, but just remember that it's not a human and it's not creating you a unique style or something unique. It's using what's already out there. So, you need to be able to take that, treat it as drafts, and refine from there.

[52:54] Why authenticity matters more now

Kane: With this in mind, how important do you think authenticity is going to become?

Aisha: Oh, it's so important. It already is. It's changing the social media algorithms so much, because so much of it is AI now. And you see it with the rise of podcasts. People need that human connection. They need that authenticity instead of seeing everything as AI and artificial. So the importance of personal brands and those stories is growing. I'll use Instagram as an example. Instagram used to be just aesthetically pleasing grids, and everything was polished and perfect.

Kane: We took effort to have it that good. Whereas now it's not that way.

Aisha: Now it's the other way. Everything used to be so overproduced, and now it's raw, authentic storytelling, sharing that reflectiveness and your own perspective on certain issues, that sort of thing, where AI cannot do that. AI can create guides and create tips and create these nice polished social posts, but it can't share your own perspective. It can't share that story. It can't share its experience, because it doesn't have any. So, it's very important.

Kane: It can make you look like a cartoon as well, if you didn't know that.

Aisha: Yes, I know that. Every single post that you see online at the moment. And it just lowers everyone's trust as well. Everyone just doesn't believe what they see anymore. It's growing so much smarter. And you think about all of the AI ads out there now. It's changed so much. You used to be able to easily pick what was AI, and now there's some videos that are out and you wouldn't know.

Kane: Yeah, it is scary. It is scary. I think you mentioned before about podcasts, and that obviously is long-form content. I know a lot of the content I've been watching over the past 12 months is explaining how important that is. Now people's attention span is like three seconds or five seconds or something. But to build that trust, if someone sees that short form and they can then go to your long-form content, that's where you can really start to build the trust.

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: Especially with things like business coaching. Obviously with electrical, you're not going to watch an hour-long podcast to then decide, "Yeah, I trust that guy. I'm going to get him out to do a two-hour electrical job for me." But it's more those longer-term relationships, which would be more like business coaching, or even if you're a marketing agency, because you want to use the expert. You can say you're an expert, you can have those USPs, like, "I've done this, I've built a company to this," but until you've actually watched that person speak...

Aisha: Over a long period of time.

Kane: You can say anything. It doesn't mean anything. I suppose another example would be, we're looking for electricians, we're hiring at the moment, and in the interview people can tell you they've done this, they've done that, "I can do all these jobs," blah blah blah, which again, you don't really know until you get them on site with your existing employees, and, "Okay, let's see if he can actually do it then."

Aisha: Mhm. You just don't know. There's no way of knowing. That's why social media is important for trade businesses as well, because oftentimes that does the talking for you before they even decide that they need any work done. It is essentially a living portfolio or a living resume. Having that archive of work that you've done previously, those before and afters, they're essentially building a relationship with you before they decide that they need anything done.

Kane: Even with that, even the photos of the work you've completed, to me now, I'm like, well, you could just be choosing the best jobs or staged jobs. But I personally think even the POV videos we've been doing of the tradies on site, I reckon that's great. And also a day in the life, those kinds of videos.

Aisha: It's real. It's raw. It's authentic. Well, not now really, but you can't really replace that with AI.

Kane: I know they're trying to make it so you can do anything, but for the foreseeable future at least, those real in-person videos, not super edited. You've got to be able to trust something.

Aisha: Yeah. I think what's working really well is those POVs. Video format's always going to outperform just static photos, but even the time lapses of work being completed, showcasing what actually goes into the job, they're very important.

[58:09] Best marketing advice Aisha received

Kane: What's the best piece of marketing advice you've ever been given?

Aisha: Oh. When I first started out, my mind was more into the branding. When I went to uni, it was graphic design. I just knew I wanted to be a creative person, so mine was starting in branding. But then when I was at uni, I found, like I said before, you can't have branding without marketing, and I started understanding more about what marketing is and strengthening branding with marketing. So I think what made me fall in love with marketing was my lecturers breaking down the strategy and the why behind a good marketing system, and not jumping straight into making something look pretty, but breaking it down. Branding is not just a decoration. You need to have that strategy, that research, those frameworks first. So I would definitely say that stage of things. You can overlook that and just get really excited about wanting to create something and just be like, "I'm going to make a really pretty..."

Kane: Sounds familiar.

Aisha: Yeah. "I'm going to make a pretty logo and I'm going to add these colours because I think it'll look nice."

Kane: You need a story behind it.

Aisha: Yeah. You need all of that research and the strategy and the planning behind that, because I remember so many projects in my first year where I would treat it as a decoration, take that approach, and then be like, "Okay, well now this is a campaign." And it's not one thing. It now needs to turn into a business, and you need to put it on all of these different platforms and produce it in all of these different formats, and then your pretty brand of decoration starts to break, because you didn't do any of that stuff. And that's the same with any business. You can't just jump that. You need all of that research and strategy first.

Kane: That's where the expertise comes in, because so many times I would just send you something on Paint.

Aisha: And I get to break it apart and be like, "Oh, I wonder what he was trying to do here."

Kane: What was the reasoning behind it? It takes time to learn that. I think I've definitely got better. No expert, but even talking about the van wraps the other day, like I mentioned, I wonder how we could then think about this going on to other things, like my business cards and the website, so that it is super recognisable. So yeah, I think I'm getting a little bit better.

Aisha: Yeah, I think that's what really excited me when I left uni and started doing freelancing, the startups, because no business is the same and everyone's goals are different. You do all of that research and strategy and then you build something so nice out of it, and none of this is seen by anyone. They just see the amazing outcome. And it's never just, "Here's one logo with a font to use." It's, "Okay, here's your new branding package or your brand book, and how it suits all these other formats that you need it for, and how this will actually serve you in the longevity and not just the stage that you're at right now."

Aisha: And for a lot of startups, when I was freelancing, that's the first point. The common client I would always get is, "Just make me a logo," and you can't. No, you have to do all of that. Build them a package, and then they don't need you for a while.

Kane: And then you get to do it again when they rebrand.

Aisha: Yeah. Or for the next client.

[1:03:36] Why I want the team in the office

Kane: All right. Should we turn the tables?

Aisha: Yeah, sure.

Kane: Is there anything we haven't covered that you want to talk about?

Aisha: I did have two questions prepared. So, during Covid I was working from home, not at Smartfix, and a lot of businesses changed to going remote or removing the need for an in-house team. But for you, it's always been really important that everyone works in the office, or that you have an in-person team for, say, customer service, whereas with other trade businesses I worked with, or clients, it's uncommon to have such a large customer service team in person like we do. Others might have someone remote, or someone in Bali, and that sort of stuff. Why do you think it's so important to you to have that in-person team connection in the office? And was there ever a point where you thought this might change?

Kane: I think there's two main reasons. I think the lesser of the two would be the whole trust thing, even for me. Hypothetically, if you're talking about VAs, for example, whether it's in the Philippines or Bali or even over east, for me, I don't like not having control or visibility of what they're doing. Because some of the roles I don't know how to do myself, there's a lot of trust that I'm putting into the other person, and I can't see them in person or have them speak to me in person. Sometimes I'm not the best at explaining things, especially over email or whatever. So for me it's much easier if they are in person in the office.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: And that ties into the next thing as well. I spend a lot of money on offices to make them nice. I like having the team around me. It's easier just to run down the stairs and have a chat, have a conversation with someone about my idea that might be on Paint, like we spoke about before.

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: Whereas trying to do that over email, over Teams, I don't know. For me, I didn't really like it, to be honest. And obviously the whole team culture thing is there as well. If they're not even in the same state, it's difficult to build that connection with the rest of the team. It's hard enough having trades, because they don't really come to the office. They're pretty much self-sufficient. That's why we have monthly toolbox meetings, and every two or three months we have the sundowner, so there's an opportunity for them to actually catch up in person, because that connection is important. I think that's how we've been able to keep some of our tradies on the road for so long, because I think they like that as well. We've got a pretty nice office. They can come here and have a chat in our lounge area, or at the sundowners. So yeah, that's the main reason, to be honest. I do like the team culture and the connection.

Aisha: Yeah, I was going to ask, because it seems like more of a personal opinion, wanting everyone at the office. But that team culture and that connection, you can definitely tell the difference. The team culture here is unlike anywhere I've worked. Everyone treats each other like family and friends. And I think it's definitely a privilege in today's world, what a good workplace looks like. And we are at a good point of having a really nice office setup where everyone can work here.

[1:06:44] Remote staff, VAs and when to get an office

Aisha: But for trade businesses starting out, a lot of the time, before they move out of home into an office space, it's a workshop or a warehouse. Have you had to give any advice to them about whether they should hire remote or in person?

Kane: Yes, it's an interesting one. So Steve from E-Maintain, who's been on the podcast before, his first admin employee is a VA.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: It's a hard one, but he's pretty switched on, so he knows how to deal with them because he has dealt with them before. Whereas for a trade business that's just starting, I would think that's so risky. For me, I just wouldn't have the trust there. I wouldn't want to let them into my CRM to have almost full control over everything if I haven't even physically met the person. I would genuinely be afraid of potential scams and things like that. For me, it's risky. But there's obviously pros and cons, because the ability to afford an office as a fresh business probably isn't there. But then again, if you're a fresh business owner, you probably don't need an admin as the first person anyway. We didn't have admin for maybe the first three or four years.

Aisha: And you're not classing the customer service team as admin?

Kane: Yeah. We didn't have that for...

Aisha: So it was just you guys answering all the customer enquiries. Obviously it depends on what the business owner wants to do.

Kane: Yeah. It was me by myself. Then we hired Finn and his best mate at the time. I think we had maybe five or six guys on the road. Then I was in the office full-time, then Finn came into the office. So, we were doing all the admin work, which I enjoyed doing, because I wanted to, but some people don't want to do that. But in my opinion, by the time you should have an admin person, you should have an office at that point.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: It is risky, but that is the next step. You need an office, in my opinion. I understand how people can run businesses from home to a certain extent, but then it gets to a point where you can't really have tradies rocking up to your house to grab materials, or have a performance review meeting when your wife and kids are in the home. I just think that's really, really strange. I wouldn't do that.

Aisha: Mhm. Yeah, that's a good point. And it takes more management as well when they're not there. You can't just go over and talk to them. It takes more systems, more task management, and just managing.

Kane: Something like Asana to task manage.

Aisha: Yeah. When we've had to bring in VAs for Smartfix, it's been starting out with daily calls, then turning into weekly calls, and then using Asana to manage them and make sure tasks are getting done, and then having those check-ups. And then still making them feel like they're part of the team, so that they're dedicated and producing what you want. It can be a lot cheaper. It is a bit of a short-term solution, though.

Kane: Why is that?

Aisha: I think for what I do, the branding and marketing side of things, that's why hiring juniors is so important as well, because they are so much more dedicated and they work so hard. And it's important for them to know the brand story and understand it, especially for the trades and services. I have to know everything that's in a switchboard and what's involved in an air con install and all that sort of stuff, and so do the other people in the marketing team, so that we can make all these social posts, do all these flyers and everything, and update stuff on the website without needing to have every single step approved by an electrician or whatever. There's a lot more background training to then be able to pass on those tasks and know they will get done to the standard of the business and what's already been set.

Kane: So in a way, that pretty much proves the point as to why it's hard to use VAs or anything else, because...

Aisha: If it is short-term.

Kane: Obviously we've had them fairly recently at Smartfix. By the time they're aware and all across what we're doing... I don't know, it seemed like there was a bit of turnover as well with them. They're not always necessarily 100% reliable, especially if they're through a recruitment agency kind of situation, which is what we used, I believe. Is that right?

[1:11:59] Working from home and team connection

Aisha: Yeah, that one was. And then even with Covid, people started to work remote as well, having days working from home.

Kane: Yeah. So, I got used to that. I didn't like that at the start.

Aisha: Obviously, Covid forced that anyway.

Kane: Yeah. So again, with the amount of money that we've spent on the offices, I'm not spending that money to have people not work in the office. But over time, after Covid, it is different sometimes if you have a day working from home here or there. It's a different mindset. For me, if I work from home for a day, I just get insane amounts of work completed, because there are no other distractions. So I'm definitely more open to the idea now. But the preference is in the office most of the time.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: To see the team. Obviously you mentioned before about having to learn, know and understand the trades. You can literally walk in to speak to me or Finn, or there's a tradie that rocks up to the office to have a chat...

Aisha: Yeah, definitely.

Kane: ...or whatnot, and you can literally have a conversation with them. And so can the other people in the marketing team as well. Even the customer service girls that are upstairs, they cross paths with the tradies in the office. It's just that connection, especially these days.

Aisha: That's what makes people stay as well. With the whole loneliness epidemic that everyone's talking about at the moment...

Kane: The disconnection and all that stuff, because everything's digital, everything's online, everything's AI.

Aisha: Yeah. At least you can go to work and speak to people.

Kane: I think it helps.

Aisha: Yeah, definitely.

Kane: It's almost like a community in a way.

Aisha: Yeah. In a weird way, you spend most of your...

Kane: You spend more time at work than at home. That's why I don't really like the whole work-life balance thing. Work is life. It's such a big part of your life. I understand why people say that all the time, but to me, if you don't like your work, go and find something else to do, because you spend a lot of time at work.

Aisha: Yeah.

Kane: That's important to me.

[1:14:09] Hiring for titles and overhiring

Aisha: Mhm. Yeah. And it is such a privilege as well to have a job that is your genuine passion. So yeah, next question. 2024 into 2025 obviously was a big shift for us. It was our highest to then our lowest point. And we had quite a large marketing team at that point. I think at that stage, the first initial growth of marketing, it was not understanding what we might need at the time, and hiring for a title instead of for the stage the business was at. And now that's shifted, and we've got a smaller, stronger team now that suits the direction that we're going in marketing, and then also just jobs in general. How do you think your mind has shifted since, with hiring for a title versus breaking down the description and thinking about the longevity of the business and what you actually need?

Kane: Yeah, I've probably learnt more in the last two years than I have in the whole nine years of business, to be honest. I previously hired for titles, or things that I thought the business needed. That was probably something that I was misinformed about, maybe by social media and other people that I watch. Not that this was one of them, but a chief of staff is something that recently I've been seeing pop up, and it's like, what does that even mean? So yeah, I think it was just from things that I saw. Other big businesses had these titles. I'm like, I wonder if I could just hire someone in that title and if it'd be a game changer for us. Obviously, we tried that with multiple things, not just marketing, but other roles as well, and it's never, ever worked for us. It's never, ever worked hiring in someone that's, in brackets, above everyone else.

Kane: It's only worked for us where someone comes in as a junior, or someone that's malleable, that's willing to learn, because our business is, I'd say, quite unique in a way. The way we operate is quite specific. It's changed thousands of times. I think people need to come in boots on the ground, learning, I suppose, the hard way, or how we operate, and then they can level up and grow and have that career progression. That's been the case for almost every person that's been here for longer than two or three years. They've grown in the job they do, they've got the promotions or whatnot, or they're staying doing what they're doing because they love it, but they're getting higher pay or more flexible working arrangements, whether it's four days a week, or starting two hours later but finishing two hours later because that's their preferred work time. So I think we're quite flexible. It's been a very, very good learning curve, but also very expensive. It's cost a lot of money.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: A lot of money.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: Yeah. It's a good lesson to learn. We're obviously in a very good position now. Super happy with the team we have. We're very lean, but it is what we need. We definitely overhired. I've always, always overhired. That's always been a thing of mine that I thought was always good.

Aisha: Mhm.

Kane: There's pros and cons. In the early years, something I always said was we will always hire, because I don't want people to be stressed out in what they do. And we have pretty much always stuck to that, to be honest. As soon as someone's almost at capacity or slightly overworked, we'll hire someone straight away. Or we'll hire that person too early to try and get them trained to take on those extra responsibilities. Again, there's pros and cons. It's an expensive way to do it, and obviously it bit us in the bum at the end of last year. So there's definitely things that we did, or that I did, wrong as a business.

Aisha: Yeah. We survived.

Kane: We survived.

Aisha: And like you said, I think we are in probably the strongest position that we've been. And even during all of that, the hires and then the losses and everything, I learnt so much in such a short time about marketing in general. It's not always the ideal way to work, with very short, multiple deadlines, but everything that came out of it, I think, has just strengthened us.

Kane: That's such a good point. It's so funny, because I remember when you were freelancing for us, and when you started it was just after you redesigned the brochure. I'm pretty sure when you started, we changed it again, and I remember speaking to you and saying, "This is probably the last time we'll change this. Once this brochure is done, and the magnets and flyers are done to suit, that should be it." And it's never, ever stayed the same. And it's been what, two, almost three years?

Aisha: Yeah. A bit longer than that.

Kane: And right now we're in the middle of probably the biggest rebrand we've ever done. Probably the most expensive.

Aisha: I think so. Adding the mascot into the branding was, I think, the first big one.

Kane: That's a big one.

Aisha: Yeah. And then changing to Multi Trade, and now this again. So I'm kind of used to it now. But I have kept all of the past brochures and everything as well.

Kane: A bit of history there.

Aisha: Yeah. It's nice to look back on if I'm ever feeling doubtful about what I'm producing. At least it doesn't look like that.

Kane: Yeah. And keep going. It's not like the red and blue line through the middle.

Aisha: Yeah. Not Paint or PowerPoint or whatever that is.

[1:20:27] One marketing tip for every owner

Kane: Nothing wrong with Paint. So, one more question just to wrap it up. What's one piece of marketing advice every business owner should receive?

Aisha: Great question. I think it's important at the beginning to not overwhelm yourself. Marketing, just the word, can seem very intimidating. The reason that you started a business is because you are passionate and that is your hobby, and when you start seeing that as work and a chore more than a passion, that's when people start to slow down or stop. And bringing marketing into the mix when it's not something that you're used to can start to speed up that process. So, I would say don't overload or overwhelm yourself with all of the possibilities of what you can do with marketing for your business at the beginning. Just pick three things and stay consistent with those. And then as you grow, that's when you start to add more things. So it might be your Google Business Profile and a review system, picking one social media platform, and picking a consistency.

Kane: Yeah, I agree. Focus has been such a huge thing for me in the past 12 months. There's so many things that can be done, but you can't do them all at the same time. So yeah, picking a few and focusing.

Aisha: Yeah. That's when the rash decisions come into it, and without realising, you start going in directions that you don't want to go, or you don't think about how that's going to look in six months or a year's time or whatever it may be.

Kane: Yep. 100%. Thanks so much for coming on.

Aisha: Thank you. It's been good to do it again after the rebrand.